Elixir Survey 2024

Explore insights from 500 participants on the Elixir programming language's state in 2024
About the survey

Last year's survey brought some great insights, and now it’s time to reveal the results of this year’s edition! 🎉

Our mission with the annual Elixir survey is to provide valuable data for developers and decision-makers, helping to guide the community in the right direction.

Thanks to the amazing community, we’ve improved some of the questions and answers from last year, which helped us increase the percentage of participants who completed the survey this year. We also gathered valuable feedback to make next year’s edition even better.

A huge thank you to the 500 Elixir enthusiasts who took the time to answer all of the 25 questions!

Curiosum Team

1. What occupation or role best describes you?

500 out of 500 answered

Developer
257 resp.
51.4%
Lead Developer
123 resp.
24.6%
CTO
32 resp.
6.4%
Architect
22 resp.
4.4%
Engineering Manager
18 resp.
3.6%
Head of Technology
17 resp.
3.4%
CEO
14 resp.
2.8%
Student
7 resp.
1.4%
Educator / Trainee / Professor
4 resp.
0.8%
VP of Engineering
4 resp.
0.8%
Product Manager
1 resp.
0.2%
Project Manager
1 resp.
0.2%
Summary

Most respondents are hands-on developers (51.4%), followed by lead developers (24.6%). Smaller but notable groups include CTOs, architects, and engineering managers, showing a community that’s not just composed of coders but also technical leaders and decision-makers. The range of roles—from students to CEOs might indicate a mature, well-rounded ecosystem.

Compared to last year, the distribution looks fairly stable—developers still dominate, and lead developers remain the second-largest group. However, there’s a slight increase in more senior and managerial positions (CTOs, architects, and managers).

2. How long have you been using Elixir?

494 out of 500 answered

1 year or less
91 resp.
18.4%
8 years or more
73 resp.
14.8%
3 years
68 resp.
13.8%
5 years
68 resp.
13.8%
7 years
55 resp.
11.1%
4 years
52 resp.
10.5%
2 years
47 resp.
9.5%
6 years
40 resp.
8.1%
Summary

The experience level distribution is well-spread. About a fifth of respondents are new (18.4%), while nearly as many (14.8%) have been using Elixir for eight years or more. The middle ranges are also evenly represented, suggesting that Elixir continues to attract fresh talent while retaining long-time practitioners which is a good sign.

3. How would you rate your Elixir knowledge?

494 out of 500 answered

7.0
Average rating
Summary

Respondents tend to cluster around the middle-upper range, with 7 and 8 being the most popular scores—together, they account for over half of the responses. This aligns with a common pattern in self-assessment surveys, where participants often pick a safe “above average” rating rather than extremes. Compared to last year, the distribution looks very similar, indicating that the overall self-assessment of Elixir proficiency remains stable.

4. How would you describe your seniority level as a developer?

494 out of 500 answered

Senior
365 resp.
73.9%
Regular / Mid-level
110 resp.
22.3%
Junior
19 resp.
3.8%
Summary

Senior-level developers dominate (almost 74%), with regular/mid-level at about 22% and juniors under 4%. Compared to last year, senior representation has inched upward, while mid-level and junior shares remain similar. This suggests an ongoing trend where more respondents self-identify as seniors. It might also suggest that Elixir devs stick to this technology, and as a result, more and more of them become senior.

5. What are the 3 features of Elixir you consider the most important or most appealing?

494 out of 500 answered

Productivity
275 resp.
55.7%
Fun & Joy of Development
245 resp.
49.6%
Concurrency
215 resp.
43.5%
Fault tolerance
163 resp.
33%
Ecosystem, Frameworks & Libraries
134 resp.
27.1%
Reliability
111 resp.
22.5%
Documentation
105 resp.
21.3%
Scalability
84 resp.
17%
Community
62 resp.
12.6%
Performance
46 resp.
9.3%
Flexibility
37 resp.
7.5%
Other
5 resp.
1%
Summary

Productivity is still the top priority, closely followed by the joy of development and concurrency—just like last year. Fault tolerance and a strong ecosystem continue to be key factors, while reliability, documentation, and scalability maintain their steady position in the middle.

Compared to last year, the top choices remain largely unchanged, though a slight rise in mentions of concurrency and the ecosystem highlights ongoing appreciation for Elixir’s core strengths. Responses like “Functional,” “Maintainability,” or “Access running state” reflect niche interests in code quality and operational visibility. Mentions of “Syntax” and “Cost Efficacy” show that users value both a great developer experience and economic efficiency.

6. How do you rate your satisfaction with the following aspects of Elixir?

494 out of 500 answered

1 2 3 4 5
Productivity
0%
(0 responses)
0.8%
(4 responses)
7.5%
(37 responses)
33.6%
(166 responses)
58.1%
(287 responses)
Concurrency
0.2%
(1 response)
0%
(0 responses)
2%
(10 responses)
13.8%
(68 responses)
84%
(415 responses)
Fault tolerance
0.2%
(1 response)
0.2%
(1 response)
5.1%
(25 responses)
19.6%
(97 responses)
74.9%
(370 responses)
Scalability
0%
(0 responses)
0.6%
(3 responses)
7.5%
(37 responses)
29.1%
(144 responses)
62.8%
(310 responses)
Flexibility
0%
(0 responses)
1%
(5 responses)
14.2%
(70 responses)
39.7%
(196 responses)
45.1%
(223 responses)
Reliability
0.2%
(1 response)
0.2%
(1 response)
5.7%
(28 responses)
27.9%
(138 responses)
66%
(326 responses)
Performance
0.6%
(3 responses)
4.9%
(24 responses)
25.3%
(125 responses)
42.7%
(211 responses)
26.5%
(131 responses)
Ecosystem, Frameworks & Libraries
0.6%
(3 responses)
5.9%
(29 responses)
24.7%
(122 responses)
42.1%
(208 responses)
26.7%
(132 responses)
Community
0.4%
(2 responses)
2.8%
(14 responses)
10.7%
(53 responses)
26.3%
(130 responses)
59.7%
(295 responses)
Fun & Joy of Development
0%
(0 responses)
0.6%
(3 responses)
3.6%
(18 responses)
19.4%
(96 responses)
76.3%
(377 responses)
Documentation
0.8%
(4 responses)
1.2%
(6 responses)
7.1%
(35 responses)
32.4%
(160 responses)
58.5%
(289 responses)
Summary

This is the question we were most eager to see answered because it’s something we’re genuinely curious about.

It’s no surprise that concurrency and the joy of development came out on top—these are clearly Elixir’s superpowers. Productivity, fault tolerance, reliability, documentation, and the amazing community also scored high, which just confirms what makes Elixir so special.

Scalability, though, scored a bit lower, which makes us wonder if we as a community could do more to show how well Elixir scales in real-world, large-scale systems. Maybe it’s a sign to share more success stories, best practices, and tips for scaling.

Performance and the ecosystem seem to be rated the lowest, whether through better tools, libraries, or resources.

7. Have you used Elixir for backend interoperability with other languages, e.g., through NIFs, ports, or microservices? If so, which one(s)?

494 out of 500 answered

None
184 resp.
37.2%
Erlang
139 resp.
28.1%
Rust
129 resp.
26.1%
Python
84 resp.
17%
JavaScript
70 resp.
14.2%
Bash & Shell scripting
68 resp.
13.8%
C/C++
67 resp.
13.6%
Ruby
40 resp.
8.1%
Go
32 resp.
6.5%
Java, Kotlin, other JVM languages
20 resp.
4%
ZIG
19 resp.
3.8%
C#
11 resp.
2.2%
PHP
9 resp.
1.8%
Clojure
4 resp.
0.8%
Scala
3 resp.
0.6%
Perl
2 resp.
0.4%
Other
10 resp.
2%
Summary

A significant share of respondents (about 37%) don’t integrate Elixir with other languages at all. Among those who do, Erlang (28.1%) and Rust (26.1%) are top choices, followed by Python, JavaScript, Bash, and C/C++. Compared to last year, Rust usage has grown slightly.

8. Have you previously used another programming language for the tasks you now handle with Elixir? If so, which one(s)?

494 out of 500 answered

JavaScript
242 resp.
49%
Ruby
196 resp.
39.7%
Python
171 resp.
34.6%
Java, Kotlin, other JVM languages
107 resp.
21.7%
PHP
98 resp.
19.8%
Go
90 resp.
18.2%
C#
61 resp.
12.3%
Bash & Shell scripting
50 resp.
10.1%
None
37 resp.
7.5%
C/C++
33 resp.
6.7%
Erlang
31 resp.
6.3%
Rust
28 resp.
5.7%
Clojure
22 resp.
4.5%
Perl
18 resp.
3.6%
Scala
14 resp.
2.8%
ZIG
1 resp.
0.2%
Other
10 resp.
2%
Summary

Just like last year, JavaScript, Ruby, and Python are the top three languages people switched from. Java/JVM languages, PHP, and Go also continue to show up regularly. It’s clear that Elixir is often stepping in to replace traditional web and scripting stacks, as well as some enterprise setups.

9. Which of the following architectures, patterns or approaches do you use or prefer in your Elixir projects?

494 out of 500 answered

Never used Use occasionally Prefer
Monolithic
3.2%
(16 responses)
19.4%
(96 responses)
77.3%
(382 responses)
Microservices
40.5%
(200 responses)
47.8%
(236 responses)
11.7%
(58 responses)
Umbrella Apps
45.3%
(224 responses)
41.7%
(206 responses)
13%
(64 responses)
CQRS
69.4%
(343 responses)
23.3%
(115 responses)
7.3%
(36 responses)
Event-Driven
34.4%
(170 responses)
44.7%
(221 responses)
20.9%
(103 responses)
Domain-Driven Design
28.9%
(143 responses)
41.9%
(207 responses)
29.1%
(144 responses)
Serverless
83.4%
(412 responses)
15.4%
(76 responses)
1.2%
(6 responses)
Summary

Monolithic architectures are the strong favorite—over three-quarters of respondents indicate they “prefer” monoliths. Domain-Driven Design (DDD) and event-driven approaches also show solid interest, though most respondents only use them occasionally. Microservices, while widely experimented with (nearly half “use occasionally”), remain less favored overall. CQRS and serverless architectures remain niche, with the vast majority never using them.

10. Are you using Phoenix LiveView in your workplace or other projects?

494 out of 500 answered

Yes
411 resp.
83.2%
No
83 resp.
16.8%
Summary

The adoption of Phoenix LiveView has grown (62.8% last year). Now, with version 1.0, Phoenix LiveView seems to be very well adopted across the community, which could suggest that Elixir devs prefer LiveView over JS frameworks such as React.

11. Have you used any of these libraries or tools from the Numerical Elixir ecosystem in your projects?

494 out of 500 answered

Livebook
291 resp.
58.9%
None
181 resp.
36.6%
Nx
129 resp.
26.1%
Bumblebee
94 resp.
19%
Explorer
89 resp.
18%
Axon
67 resp.
13.6%
Scholar
36 resp.
7.3%
Summary

About a quarter of Elixir developers had a chance to use at least one of the tools available within the Numerical Elixir ecosystem. This is the first time we have gathered this data. Therefore, it will be very interesting to observe how the adoption will change in the upcoming years with a growing interest in AI.

Livebook usage clearly states that it's a well-known tool within the community. From our point of view, the adoption of Livebook should continue to go up in the upcoming years.

12. Which code editor do you use?

494 out of 500 answered

Visual Studio Code
290 resp.
58.7%
Neovim
152 resp.
30.8%
Zed
101 resp.
20.4%
Vim
53 resp.
10.7%
Cursor
40 resp.
8.1%
Emacs
40 resp.
8.1%
IntelliJ
26 resp.
5.3%
Helix
24 resp.
4.9%
Sublime
22 resp.
4.5%
RubyMine
10 resp.
2%
Other
12 resp.
2.4%
Summary

VS Code still dominates at nearly 60%, with Neovim entering the second place. This year we introduced additional editors based on community feedback—Zed, Cursor, and Helix—all showing measurable usage.

The data also shows that AI-centered editors, such as Cursor, are not yet the go-to option. It might mean that developers use in-editor extensions (such as Github Copilot), are not yet familiar with these tools, or simply don't see enough value yet.

13. Which hosting platform do you use

494 out of 500 answered

AWS
242 resp.
49%
Fly.io
207 resp.
41.9%
Private cloud / on-premise / self-hosting
104 resp.
21.1%
Hetzner
84 resp.
17%
Digital Ocean
82 resp.
16.6%
Google Cloud Platform
79 resp.
16%
Heroku
33 resp.
6.7%
Gigalixir
29 resp.
5.9%
None
17 resp.
3.4%
Linode
16 resp.
3.2%
Microsoft Azure
16 resp.
3.2%
Render
14 resp.
2.8%
OVH
12 resp.
2.4%
Hugging Face
4 resp.
0.8%
Alibaba Cloud
2 resp.
0.4%
Other
21 resp.
4.3%
Summary

AWS is still the top choice (49%), but Fly.io is catching up fast at 42%. Its rising presence in the community and simpler deployment model seem to appeal to developers looking for alternatives to more complex or expensive setups. Private clouds and on-premise hosting (21%) also stand out, likely driven by stricter data regulations or cost-saving strategies.

Hetzner, Digital Ocean, and GCP hold steady in the middle but aren’t growing as quickly as Fly.io. This might suggest a shift toward either the convenience of Fly.io’s platform-focused approach or the control offered by private hosting. Microsoft Azure and other smaller platforms see limited use, perhaps due to a lack of Elixir-specific resources, marketing, or community buzz.

14. What have been the biggest challenges in adopting and using Elixir in production?

494 out of 500 answered

Hiring
180 resp.
36.4%
Integrations and missing open-source libraries
173 resp.
35%
Learning Curve
131 resp.
26.5%
Ecosystem Maturity
97 resp.
19.6%
None
91 resp.
18.4%
Documentation
31 resp.
6.3%
Other
48 resp.
9.7%
Summary

Hiring and missing integrations are the biggest issues, followed by a moderate learning curve and questions about ecosystem depth. “Other” comments highlight struggles with management buy-in, cultural resistance, advanced docs, and type system gaps. It’s clear that beyond technical challenges, organizational and educational hurdles also need more attention.

15. Do you plan to continue using Elixir for future projects?

494 out of 500 answered

Yes
488 resp.
98.8%
No
6 resp.
1.2%
Summary

Nearly all participants stated that they plan to continue using Elixir for future projects. It's clearly a sign that Elixir is consistently one of the most-loved programming languages in the world.

16. Why do you plan to stop using Elixir?

6 out of 500 answered

I can't find the job with Elixir
3 resp.
50%
I prefer another programming language
1 resp.
16.7%
My employer want to switch to another language
1 resp.
16.7%
Too much things missing in the ecosystem
1 resp.
16.7%
Summary

Amongst the six people who answered this question, three developers had a hard time finding a job. Since the number one challenge in adopting Elixir was "hiring", there might be a need to educate companies on effective hiring strategies within this community to fix the problems on both sides.

17. Are you currently employed?

500 out of 500 answered

Yes
382 resp.
76.4%
Self-employed / Freelancing
87 resp.
17.4%
No
31 resp.
6.2%
Summary

Most of the respondents are either employed or self-employed. We asked this question to direct people to the right questions about the company specifics.

18. How would you describe the size of the organization you work for?

500 out of 500 answered

0 - 10
145 resp.
29%
10 - 50
135 resp.
27%
50 - 200
99 resp.
19.8%
1000+
73 resp.
14.6%
200 - 500
30 resp.
6%
500 - 1000
18 resp.
3.6%
Summary

Elixir isn’t limited to just one type of company. While early-stage startups (0–10 and 10–50 employees) make up the largest groups, there’s also solid representation in mid-sized companies and even nearly 15% adoption in large enterprises with 1000+ employees.

To us, this spread shows a healthy and growing ecosystem. It’s natural to see fewer huge corporations in a sample like this, but their presence at all is a great sign that Elixir is breaking out of its niche. Adoption across startups, mid-sized businesses, and enterprises proves that Elixir is maturing and ready to scale with growing organizations.

19. In which industry does your company operate?

500 out of 500 answered

Software Development & Consultancy
77 resp.
15.4%
SaaS (Software as a Service)
57 resp.
11.4%
Finance
49 resp.
9.8%
Human Resources & Recruitment
30 resp.
6%
Other
29 resp.
5.8%
Healthcare
25 resp.
5%
E-Commerce
24 resp.
4.8%
Education
21 resp.
4.2%
Enterprise Software
17 resp.
3.4%
Marketing
12 resp.
2.4%
Insurance
11 resp.
2.2%
Telecommunications
11 resp.
2.2%
Automotive
10 resp.
2%
Media & Entertainment
9 resp.
1.8%
Travel & Hospitality
9 resp.
1.8%
Retail Industry
7 resp.
1.4%
Supply Chain & Logistics
7 resp.
1.4%
Market Research
6 resp.
1.2%
Blockchain & Cryptocurrency
5 resp.
1%
Broadcast Media
5 resp.
1%
Entertainment
5 resp.
1%
Gaming
5 resp.
1%
Industrial Manufacturing
5 resp.
1%
Real Estate
5 resp.
1%
Research and Development (R&D)
5 resp.
1%
Restaurant & Food Tech
4 resp.
0.8%
Business Intelligence
3 resp.
0.6%
Domain Services
3 resp.
0.6%
Food & Beverage
3 resp.
0.6%
Health & Wellness
3 resp.
0.6%
Network Infrastructure
3 resp.
0.6%
Online Marketplaces
3 resp.
0.6%
Social
3 resp.
0.6%
Beauty and Wellness
2 resp.
0.4%
Customer Support Services
2 resp.
0.4%
Cybersecurity
2 resp.
0.4%
Edtech
2 resp.
0.4%
Expert Networks
2 resp.
0.4%
Freelance & Gig Economy
2 resp.
0.4%
Renewable & Clean Energy
2 resp.
0.4%
Sales
2 resp.
0.4%
Sports
2 resp.
0.4%
Sustainability
2 resp.
0.4%
Transportation
2 resp.
0.4%
Government
1 resp.
0.2%
Home Services
1 resp.
0.2%
Legal Services
1 resp.
0.2%
Non-Profit & NGOs
1 resp.
0.2%
Performance Management
1 resp.
0.2%
Publishing
1 resp.
0.2%
Video Production
1 resp.
0.2%
Summary

Software development & consultancy, SaaS, and finance top the list, but the range of industries is extensive—everything from healthcare and e-commerce to education and enterprise software is represented. While tech-related fields lead, the presence of finance, HR, healthcare, and more niche areas suggests Elixir’s utility goes beyond just early adopters and web-centric startups.

This broad distribution indicates Elixir’s versatility. It’s not just stuck in the tech bubble; it’s finding practical uses in traditionally slower-to-adopt sectors, hinting at a language that’s gaining trust and maturity. Over time, as more success stories emerge, we may see even broader adoption across industries that aren’t historically first-movers in tech.

20. Does your organization use Elixir?

500 out of 500 answered

Yes
397 resp.
79.4%
No
103 resp.
20.6%
Summary

Nearly 80% of respondents are employed at companies utilizing the Elixir programming language. Given that almost 99% previously stated they plan to use Elixir in future projects, this suggests that the remaining 20% might either be interested in transitioning to roles involving Elixir or influencing their current company’s technology choices.

21. How hard was it to find developers skilled in Elixir for your team?

397 out of 500 answered

Neither hard or easy
192 resp.
48.4%
Hard
112 resp.
28.2%
Very hard
46 resp.
11.6%
Easy
25 resp.
6.3%
Without any problems
22 resp.
5.5%
Summary

Compared to last year, the pattern hasn’t changed dramatically. About half of respondents again rate hiring as “neither hard nor easy,” and around 40% still find it challenging (“hard” or “very hard”). A small but steady minority reports no issues at all. This stable trend suggests that while Elixir is known and used, the talent pool isn’t rapidly expanding. Companies may need to invest more in training or community building to make hiring smoother over time.

22. Did your organization consider using Elixir?

103 out of 500 answered

Yes
27 resp.
26.2%
No
76 resp.
73.8%
Summary

Among the respondents that answered "No" in one of the previous questions, most work in a company that didn't consider using Elixir. This group of people could be a future Elixir evangelist that may impact executives' tech decisions.

23. Why your organization decided not to adopt Elixir?

27 out of 500 answered

Lack of skills in the team
18 resp.
66.7%
Lack of time
6 resp.
22.2%
The cost of adoption
6 resp.
22.2%
We chose another technology
3 resp.
11.1%
Other
7 resp.
25.9%
Summary

Within those who answered "No" in "Did your organization consider using Elixir?" question, the primary barrier was a lack of internal expertise (two-thirds cited this). Time and cost constraints also played a role, as did simply opting for a different technology. Even though this is a small subset, it highlights the need for more accessible training, resources, and clear cost-benefit examples to help organizations feel confident about making the switch.

24. How does your team acquire Elixir developers?

397 out of 500 answered

Job boards
162 resp.
40.8%
Word of mouth
130 resp.
32.7%
I don't know
118 resp.
29.7%
Internal recruitment
111 resp.
28%
Social channels
104 resp.
26.2%
Meetups & local events
54 resp.
13.6%
Conferences
49 resp.
12.3%
Open-source contributions
32 resp.
8.1%
Schools and universities
19 resp.
4.8%
Other
24 resp.
6%
Summary

Job boards and word-of-mouth are the main channels for finding Elixir developers, while internal recruitment and social media also play a role. Among the “Other” answers, a recurring theme is not actively seeking Elixir specialists but hiring strong general engineers and training them in-house. Some respondents mention relying on recruiters, LinkedIn, or external agencies, but overall, this suggests a flexible approach: companies often start with talented all-round developers and build Elixir expertise internally rather than always searching for ready-made Elixir experts.

25. Where are you from?

500 out of 500 answered

United States of America
111 resp.
22.2%
Brazil
44 resp.
8.8%
Poland
40 resp.
8%
Germany
34 resp.
6.8%
Canada
23 resp.
4.6%
United Kingdom
15 resp.
3%
Austria
13 resp.
2.6%
India
13 resp.
2.6%
Switzerland
13 resp.
2.6%
France
12 resp.
2.4%
Netherlands
11 resp.
2.2%
Sweden
11 resp.
2.2%
Belgium
10 resp.
2%
Italy
10 resp.
2%
Australia
9 resp.
1.8%
Mexico
9 resp.
1.8%
Russia
7 resp.
1.4%
Spain
7 resp.
1.4%
Denmark
6 resp.
1.2%
Norway
6 resp.
1.2%
Croatia
5 resp.
1%
Czechia (Czech Republic)
5 resp.
1%
Portugal
5 resp.
1%
Argentina
4 resp.
0.8%
China
4 resp.
0.8%
Pakistan
4 resp.
0.8%
Ukraine
4 resp.
0.8%
Bulgaria
3 resp.
0.6%
Greece
3 resp.
0.6%
Paraguay
3 resp.
0.6%
Romania
3 resp.
0.6%
Bangladesh
2 resp.
0.4%
Belarus
2 resp.
0.4%
Colombia
2 resp.
0.4%
Costa Rica
2 resp.
0.4%
Estonia
2 resp.
0.4%
Indonesia
2 resp.
0.4%
Ireland
2 resp.
0.4%
Kazakhstan
2 resp.
0.4%
Kenya
2 resp.
0.4%
Lithuania
2 resp.
0.4%
Madagascar
2 resp.
0.4%
Moldova
2 resp.
0.4%
Slovenia
2 resp.
0.4%
South Africa
2 resp.
0.4%
Bosnia and Herzegovina
1 resp.
0.2%
Botswana
1 resp.
0.2%
Burkina Faso
1 resp.
0.2%
Chile
1 resp.
0.2%
Democratic Republic of the Congo
1 resp.
0.2%
Egypt
1 resp.
0.2%
Finland
1 resp.
0.2%
Georgia
1 resp.
0.2%
Ghana
1 resp.
0.2%
Hungary
1 resp.
0.2%
Iran
1 resp.
0.2%
Malaysia
1 resp.
0.2%
Morocco
1 resp.
0.2%
New Zealand
1 resp.
0.2%
Nicaragua
1 resp.
0.2%
Nigeria
1 resp.
0.2%
Peru
1 resp.
0.2%
Serbia
1 resp.
0.2%
Sri Lanka
1 resp.
0.2%
Thailand
1 resp.
0.2%
Tunisia
1 resp.
0.2%
Uruguay
1 resp.
0.2%
Venezuela
1 resp.
0.2%
Vietnam
1 resp.
0.2%
Zambia
1 resp.
0.2%
Summary

We're always very interested to see how Elixir developers are spread across the world. This year's results appear to be quite similar to the previous edition.

USA, Brazil, Poland, and Germany seem to be the biggest hubs of Elixir developers in exactly the same order as in 2023!

Keep in mind that while we strive to engage the entire community, the data represents insights from 500 Elixir enthusiasts. As a result, the overall picture might vary slightly when considering the broader group.